N. America Vs Europe

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Papagalli
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N. America Vs Europe

Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:44 pm

Greetings folks. I rarely post on here due to work, school, and personal obligations but I still lurk once a while especially during game days (NT.) I wanted to know about the users on here who reside in Europe, basically cost of living, wages, and etc in Europe.

Started dating a French/Albanian girl here in the states, and we started contemplating on moving to France (or Geneva) for good in order to be closer to our families. Has anyone ever thought about that from the states or is everyone a Hard Core american by this point? Also, what it would be like living there, I'm currently wrapping up my Bachelors degree in CS at Northeastern University, and have been working in web security for about five years now at a lucrative company based off in MIT (also had various jobs in IT as well,) so if i leave i would leave as a engineer, which isn't too bad.

With that being said, opportunities in Europe are scarce, and wages are cheaper, hence asking for some insider info if is it worth moving back to the old continent for a better lifestyle. I make a pretty good living here (but the cost of living is also quite high,) and was wondering how much I'd make there working as a programmer, and what sort of companies are the best to work at including salary wise. One major pro in Europe is free college tuition, which I was hoping to use in order to finish my masters. Work and life balance is also much better then here in the states as well. Any other pros and cons people could list on here would be greatly appreciated.
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Leandro
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:30 pm

So your questions boils down to whether you would replace social justice warriors with middle east immigrants.

yes -> europe
no -> usa

Why would anyone want to move to Francestan at this point is baffling.
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Simboli i Diellit
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:24 am

Papagalli, i don't know much about quality of life and job opportunities in France but my cousins say it's good . Jobs in IT basically start at 1700€ reaching max 3000€ . House rental it's about 700-900 € monthly while cost of life is like in Albania . Masters and phds usually are for "free" and they give you a small salary like 1k a month . Germany and Switzerland have better salaries and much more job opportunities in IT. Renting houses is cheaper and quality of life is one of the best in EU. Other countries like Italy, Spain, Denmark, Austria ect would be a big downgrade from what you're used to.
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Leandro
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:40 am

Denmark and Austria big downgrade from USA (did he even say where exactly)? France cost of living same with Albania? I dont think these are true.
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Simboli i Diellit
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:36 am

Leandro wrote:Denmark and Austria big downgrade from USA (did he even say where exactly)? France cost of living same with Albania? I dont think these are true.
He lives in Boston. Cost of life appart from rent which i stated , i ment buying everyday things like food , education and transport. Actually they cost less here than in Albania. Denmark and Austria aren't known to have big IT companies, Denmark has more of them than Austria obviously and they pay more but yes Denmark and Austria look like villages compared to Boston . Frankfurt, Munich, Koln , Geneve , Paris are decent compared to NE cities in US.
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Papagalli
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:18 pm

Simboli i Diellit wrote:
Leandro wrote:Denmark and Austria big downgrade from USA (did he even say where exactly)? France cost of living same with Albania? I dont think these are true.
He lives in Boston. Cost of life appart from rent which i stated , i ment buying everyday things like food , education and transport. Actually they cost less here than in Albania. Denmark and Austria aren't known to have big IT companies, Denmark has more of them than Austria obviously and they pay more but yes Denmark and Austria look like villages compared to Boston . Frankfurt, Munich, Koln , Geneve , Paris are decent compared to NE cities in US.
Thanks for the info Simboli! Boston is a great city to live in, it's just that it's super cold and people are awful (anti-social.) I'm just a little tired of USA as it's all i know since i moved here as a kid and only been to europe on vacation. Currently I'm 24 with a BS, and would like to try something new before I start having dependents. Personally i never visited Germany but have been to France and Geneva. Would say my ranking goes Switzerland, Germany, then France. The reason I said france it's cause it's the easiest for my gf, but i would prefer germany any day. I actually came across someone in my company who said they'd put a good word for me and I could make an internal transfer as a TPM to either munich or frankfurt in a year or so. So i think if I can't get in Geneva then Germany would have to be it. In the end we all have one life, I have a US passport, and if i ever want to move back I've saved enough to come back and probably put a down payment for a house. I think the experience and also earning a masters abroad would be great for my career in general. Would love to work at CERN, although I don't think they take US citizens there.
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Migjeni
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:44 pm

If I were you, I'd take Switzerland if it's for the pay - and it has an advantage if your GF is French speaking that the country also areas where French is the main language. Don't know whether education is free in Switzerland when it comes to University, but I believe that's the case in Germany.

If it's for the free education and general welfare system I'd propose Denmark, Sweden, Norway or Finland, but they're cold and people there aren't know to be social, so you'll get more of the same as Boston. These countries pay good, but taxes are high, so you being raised in the US might be scared away by that. But those taxes go to free health care, free education etc.

Standard of living I believe is almost the same, although I'd think you'll have more leisure time working in the Scandinavian countries than if you're working in Germany or Switzerland. Don't know much about France though.
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Papagalli
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:03 pm

Migjen,

Thanks for you comment. I'm staying away from Nordic countries because they're far from the rest of europe. Extreme cold and high taxes is something i'm looking to avoid as well. Switzerland is my #1 as well, especially geneva since they speak french. In all honestly, my personal opinion is that all first world countries practically offer the same things, just different flavors. From the looks of it it all depends on what you value more, for me it's free education and high pay, which Germany offers both. Also the fact that we have offices in germany is a plus. From what I heard Switzerland is hard to get into, but if you're in you're in and you've made it.
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Papagalli
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:07 pm

ps, work life balance is important too. Here i make a great income, but my personal life suffers because I'm constantly overworked. It's good to make money, but in the end life isn't all about chasing $$$.
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Erik
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Re: N. America Vs Europe

Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:36 pm

I live in the UK so it will probably be a little bias but I think that it's the best place to live in Europe. Your job prospects are probably up there with some of the best in the world, forget what you hear about brexit ruining the economy, it's complete nonsense. College education is free here as well and for University you get a later taxable student loan to pay for it if you earn below a certain thresh hold. A starting salary for a programmer here is anywhere from £24,000 to £32,000. I think it trumps most european states for starting salaries straight out of university.

As far as London goes it's probably the most tolerant city in the world. People of all faiths and cultures respect eachother, even the mayor of London is a Muslim. As well as being liberal, UK has the advantage of being the most sovereign of the nations in Europe so you know the government in charge for the most part will be making decisions that benefit you the tax payer not other nations.
Places like France are on the brink of economic ruin.

I haven't looked this up but I imagine it's one of the safest countries in Europe as well. Crime rate in countries like France, Belgium and Germany is a disaster. You can probably look it up. Native English people for the most part are friendly, obviously you will get the occasional un-educated fool who hates everybody but this happens everywhere.

Obviously if you're planning to travel around europe then the UK might not be the best decision as we still aren't sure what's going to happen with free movement. But overall I'd probably choose here.

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