Free Your Mendje

[artan]

Bulku, the fact you're keeping on blaming religion as the root of the issues in Kosova is ridiculous. Migjeni laid out the core issues perfectly and you kind of ignored it and instead blamed it on religion because of your own personal agenda. I understand you're an atheist and young but too pinpoint the issues on Kosova because of Islam is idiotic. Stop getting this image that Kosova is Saudi Arabia because it's not. I don't know where you're getting your information about Kosovars being deeply religious from. Even the notion that Albanians from Macedonia are deeply religious is a myth as well.

Also you seem to absolve blame of Serbs and try to take a PC approach by saying it's not their fault and what not. But how aren't they a part to blame when the sole reason Kosova aren't allow to join the UN and other international organizations is because of the Serbs refusing it? Or how about Serbs getting special minority status in the constitution and now actively seeking to establish an autonomous region in Northern Kosova? They're seeking to federalize the country like what has happened to Bosnia and the Serbian political parties in the country answer to Belgrade and not to Prishtina. Then you have the cocksucker corrupt politicans who bend over the radical minority(Serbs) and give in to their little demands to appease their EU overlords. They(the Serbs) are actively seeking to destabilize the country, they don't care about the state and they never have since the formation of Yugoslavia. Ofc the Serbs aren't the sole reason for the issues of the country but to absolve them of blame is absurd..

[Aurora Bulkualis]

You're misunderstanding my whole argument.

I'm saying almost all those problems could be avoided if the people there were very well educated, active politically, didn't accept corruption, and critical thinkers. At least a huge portion of the population. True progress comes from the people, not from the politicians. If you could take all Norwegians, or whatever place Bernie Sanders has a hard on for, and placed them in Kosova with those politicians, things would change radically. Instead you have people who only protest when they hear the word Serbia, instead of protesting for employment, corruption, nepotism, education. Just because you don't see 90% of women wearing head scarves it doesn't mean the place is not religious. Kosova =/= Prishtina, and Ilirida =/= Shkupi. The rural areas that need the most progress have a Turko-Islamic culture that is holding them backwards. Most people in rural areas there pray like 5 times a day, and you can hear Imams screaming wherever you go.

P.S. How am I being P.C. when I call Balkan states backwards and full of rednecks? I am simply saying Bosnia is 50% Serbs, while Kosova is 5%. It's not the same situation.

[Migjeni]

Migjeni, what a post!

Thanks! Although much of it is from listening to Albin Kurti's analysis of things going on, so yeah...

Again, EU, now or then, means nothing. Albania has people who were pimps and murderers with fake identities in parliament, and they gained candidate status and are about to open negotiations. The difference between Bosnia and Kosova, is that in Bosnia, Serbs make up half the population. In Kosova, it's like 3%. Even then those Serbs are fleeing because of poverty. You guys have to get over your complex. You gotta realize no one gives a crap about Balkan states. They are irrelevant, rural, redneck countries with no power in the real world, including Serbia, Croatia, and whatnot.

The problem is when you have illiterate rural villagers, with 0 education, jobs, and AKs, praying 5 times in a mosque built by Erdogan & co, and are highly vulnerable to stupidity. Their religion brainwashing leads to those places becoming a cesspool for ignorance, since religion encourages passivity to corruption and acceptance of their problem in the hopes God will make everything better.

What needs to happen is Kosova needs well educated people, who question everything, protest corruption, but also accept the blame when blame is to be accepted and not blame politicians for everything. Fundamental change happens from the bottom up, not the top down. Religion, along with redneck culture, destroys the free thinking individuals that form a great state.

I'd like to set up your arguments in a numerical way, so it gets easier to get an overview of what I'm answering and what I'm commenting on.

1. Regarding the EU, you're contradicting this kind of exaltations of educated and free thinking countries and individuals. I mean, the countries of EU are full of the aforementioned people, so why is it that they accept these pimps and murderers in Albania and these criminals in the Kosovar leadership? - Because the internationals there are closely linked to the crimes committed in these places. There's no reason to exalt any nation before your own and there's no reason to have this inferiority complex regarding your background. We're not genetically prone to be corrupt, it's the system (this brutal neoliberal system which has been imposed on us) which is the wrong one, not the people, but that's another talk.

2. Regarding Serbs only being a few percent in Kosova: The thing is, that even though they're only making up a few percent, they control around a quarter of the territory in Kosova, as the Ahtisaari-plan created around 10 municipalities (I might be wrong about the number, and I don't bother checking it) and made new municipality borders so there would be Serb majorities in all of these 10 municipalities. So it's not the numbers of them which matters, it's the percentage of the territory they control which is the problem. Also, we have to remember, that there are more Albanians inside of Serbia than Serbs in Kosova. But the Albanians in Serbia have nowhere near the same amount of rights as the Serbs in Kosova.

3. Get over our complex? - Are you serious? - I guess it's easy sitting in America/Canada or wherever you are and tell a people which was murdered, raped and thrown out of their homes only 17 years ago to get over their "complex". You're acting as if Serbia has apologized, recognized Kosova, paid for the war damages, returned the plundered pensions trusts, returned the stolen artifacts and are acting like good neighbours. But Serbia hasn't done ANY OF THOSE. On the contrary Serbia calls Kosova an ISIS-state - just like you actually. Serbia has tried to destabilize Kosova since the war ended and continues to do so, while also blocking Kosova's incorporation into international organizations, the last case with UNESCO. Also, I don't give a shit whether you regard these countries as being redneck countries. I still have family there and I visit at least once a year, so the well being and the welfare of my country and my people means a lot to me. What apparently is irrelevant to you isn't for millions of people living there and living in other parts of the world as a result of Serbia. So no, you might try to get over your inferiority complex, instead of telling us to get over ours, as we don't have one. We have a real enemy, and we should treat that enemy as an enemy and not be told to get over it.

4. I honestly don't know where you have this picture of these so called rednecks praying five times a day. Tell me one thing: Have you ever been to Kosova? - If so, where in Kosova where you and for how long? Religion is not the reason for people being illiterate, jobless and stupid. Full stop. That's a flaw of the system which hasn't been able to bring jobs nor education for these people. So again, you're blaming religion while the blame should be somewhere else. It's as if you have this agenda which and then you try to fit things into it, although they don't match.

5. I agree. Fundamental changes start from the bottom. But mass movements have to have leaders, and that's why the blame should be on those leaders. They haven't been good enough to lead the anger and the desperation of people to topple the government. But I really think it's hard to do that, when you have this entire system - i.e EULEX, which is the most expensive EU mission ever which has done absolutely everything to "passivize" the people of Kosova. But it seems that this "passivization" has come to an end now. Again, religion has nothing to do with this.

You're misunderstanding my whole argument.

I'm saying almost all those problems could be avoided if the people there were very well educated, active politically, didn't accept corruption, and critical thinkers. At least a huge portion of the population. True progress comes from the people, not from the politicians. If you could take all Norwegians, or whatever place Bernie Sanders has a hard on for, and placed them in Kosova with those politicians, things would change radically. Instead you have people who only protest when they hear the word Serbia, instead of protesting for employment, corruption, nepotism, education. Just because you don't see 90% of women wearing head scarves it doesn't mean the place is not religious. Kosova =/= Prishtina, and Ilirida =/= Shkupi. The rural areas that need the most progress have a Turko-Islamic culture that is holding them backwards. Most people in rural areas there pray like 5 times a day, and you can hear Imams screaming wherever you go.

P.S. How am I being P.C. when I call Balkan states backwards and full of rednecks? I am simply saying Bosnia is 50% Serbs, while Kosova is 5%. It's not the same situation.

I'll do the same with the numerical order in this response, although you've responded to Artan.

1. Do you know how idiotic the example of taking Norwegians and placing them one place and saying that there'd be change is? - Try putting Norwegians under 500 years of Ottoman occupation, partition them, have them under a North Korean-like dictatorship (Albania) and have them under a 100 year occupation of Yugoslavia while being treated like shit for most of the time. Then "liberate" them when they've finally have had enough and begin to struggle and substitute their will for independence with an international protectorate where foreigners give them orders on how to act and what to do. Give them puppet a puppet regime which will have all possibilities to enrich themselves on the people's expense, but turn a blind eye to that, as long as they can secure you a stable Balkans. If the Norwegians would fan out better than the Albanians after going through all of that, we can begin to take that example a bit serious, until then just stop it. You can't compare two different people which have nothing in common when it comes to plight, problems and history.

2. People have been protesting for all of those things you mention. But Serbia is still the biggest problem for Albanians in Kosova, along with poverty and unemployment. Again; Not religion.

3. I'll ask you again; Have you EVER been to Kosova? - If so; When, where and for how long? - What you say is complete bullshit to say the least. I go to Kosova at least once a year, and it's NOTHING like you describe. Yes, there has been a rise of people with long beards, head scarves etc., but this rise is so tiny that I can't understand, that you spew this Serbian propaganda shit whilst calling yourself Albanian. It really ticks me off, that you portray Kosova and Macedonia in this way, because it's clear to me that you're clueless about what's going on in Kosova.

4. Hear imams screaming wherever you go? Are you fucking kidding me? - Proves you don't know jack shit about Kosova.

[Plako]

Awesome posts Migjeni. I'd have liked to chime in but I'm pretty much with you on most points.


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[Aurora Bulkualis]

Tifozi I dont get your point about putting highly educated people in Kosova. Of course under similar historical circumstances, you would get similar results. Im not blaming them for their history. Im saying now they have a great chance to develop as a people and theyre not.

You guys see the world through black and white lenses where politicians are to be blamed for most problems. We all agree they have a hand, but imo the people have much more power than a few guys in suits. The change starts with them. They have to take the initiative, but they dont. The biggest reason is that they probably pray to the imaginary sky god that hell one day bring change. It's easy to play the populism card, but like they say, its easier to find a thousand faults in others than one in yourself.

If people from Kosova expect that the change will come from the politicians, that state will never evolve. Its the end of the story. Politicians dont make a great state the individuals do. Politicians are simply a reflection of the people. The more developed a state is the less power the polticians have.

[Migjeni]

Tifozi I dont get your point about putting highly educated people in Kosova. Of course under similar historical circumstances, you would get similar results. Im not blaming them for their history. Im saying now they have a great chance to develop as a people and theyre not.

You guys see the world through black and white lenses where politicians are to be blamed for most problems. We all agree they have a hand, but imo the people have much more power than a few guys in suits. The change starts with them. They have to take the initiative, but they dont. The biggest reason is that they probably pray to the imaginary sky god that hell one day bring change. It's easy to play the populism card, but like they say, its easier to find a thousand faults in others than one in yourself.

If people from Kosova expect that the change will come from the politicians, that state will never evolve. Its the end of the story. Politicians dont make a great state the individuals do. Politicians are simply a reflection of the people. The more developed a state is the less power the polticians have.

I was just pointing out the sheer stupidity in saying "let's take all Norwegians and put them in Kosova, and you'll gonna see things there change drastically". And yes, the chance has been there since after the war, but those in charge have screwed us over. And this has been accepted by the international community. They are the puppet masters and our current leaders are their puppets, as they don't have other choices as these masters know all too well all the crimes committed by our leaders. So there's a black mail going on, if they don't want to dance to the tune of these internationals.

We agree that the people have more power, but I can give you an example of how this people's desire for change was brutally shut down in 2007. On the 10th of February 2007, Vetëvendosje! had one of the largest protests in Kosova. They had a massive support in the people and were still only a movement which wasn't in parliament. What happened? - There was a violent clampdown and two of the protesters were shot and killed. Many others were also shot, but luckily survived. And what happened? - All the blame was put on VV and Albin Kurti was arrested and tried for being the reason, while the Romanian cops who shot two innocent protesters were given honours after they left Kosova without any trial and returned to Romania only a few days/weeks later. VV has tried, but they have failed until now to change the government - that's not a failure of the people. It's a failure of VV to convince the people. I have the mantra, that the people are never wrong - their leaders are.

The thing is, that VV really believes in democracy and wants to win in legit elections and not by taking over violently. But the problem is, that the elections in 2010 were rigged and there was fraud in an industrial scale. Those words are not mine nor VV's. but words from the former French ambassador to Kosova. And the problem is, that people sell their vote. They are paid a certain amount of money to vote for PDK. Here's an example of how things are; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_iW2mdIABw (check the example from 59:06) - When people can barely feed their families politics and idealism isn't the first things that comes to mind for them. It's survival, and that's the reason that they're bought so easily. It has absolutely nothing to do with their religion.

Also, you didn't answer me: Have you ever been to Kosova? If so; When, where and how long?

[Simboli i Diellit]

I don't think any of us from the republik have been more than few days visit to Kosova. I was in Peje and Prizren few years ago but you can't touch the reality as a tourist. I've been in Albania six time last year alone and yet i fail to comprehend the motivation of many albanians (including doctors, lawyers, businessman) who prefer going west to seek asylum living in prison-like immigrant centers rather than living in luxurous conditions in Albania.

[vata10]

Tifozi I dont get your point about putting highly educated people in Kosova. Of course under similar historical circumstances, you would get similar results. Im not blaming them for their history. Im saying now they have a great chance to develop as a people and theyre not.

You guys see the world through black and white lenses where politicians are to be blamed for most problems. We all agree they have a hand, but imo the people have much more power than a few guys in suits. The change starts with them. They have to take the initiative, but they dont. The biggest reason is that they probably pray to the imaginary sky god that hell one day bring change. It's easy to play the populism card, but like they say, its easier to find a thousand faults in others than one in yourself.

If people from Kosova expect that the change will come from the politicians, that state will never evolve. Its the end of the story. Politicians dont make a great state the individuals do. Politicians are simply a reflection of the people. The more developed a state is the less power the polticians have.

I was just pointing out the sheer stupidity in saying "let's take all Norwegians and put them in Kosova, and you'll gonna see things there change drastically". And yes, the chance has been there since after the war, but those in charge have screwed us over. And this has been accepted by the international community. They are the puppet masters and our current leaders are their puppets, as they don't have other choices as these masters know all too well all the crimes committed by our leaders. So there's a black mail going on, if they don't want to dance to the tune of these internationals.

We agree that the people have more power, but I can give you an example of how this people's desire for change was brutally shut down in 2007. On the 10th of February 2007, Vetëvendosje! had one of the largest protests in Kosova. They had a massive support in the people and were still only a movement which wasn't in parliament. What happened? - There was a violent clampdown and two of the protesters were shot and killed. Many others were also shot, but luckily survived. And what happened? - All the blame was put on VV and Albin Kurti was arrested and tried for being the reason, while the Romanian cops who shot two innocent protesters were given honours after they left Kosova without any trial and returned to Romania only a few days/weeks later. VV has tried, but they have failed until now to change the government - that's not a failure of the people. It's a failure of VV to convince the people. I have the mantra, that the people are never wrong - their leaders are.

The thing is, that VV really believes in democracy and wants to win in legit elections and not by taking over violently. But the problem is, that the elections in 2010 were rigged and there was fraud in an industrial scale. Those words are not mine nor VV's. but words from the former French ambassador to Kosova. And the problem is, that people sell their vote. They are paid a certain amount of money to vote for PDK. Here's an example of how things are; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_iW2mdIABw (check the example from 59:06) - When people can barely feed their families politics and idealism isn't the first things that comes to mind for them. It's survival, and that's the reason that they're bought so easily. It has absolutely nothing to do with their religion.

Also, you didn't answer me: Have you ever been to Kosova? If so; When, where and how long?

You're kidding right? Chances Vv can win democratic elections and actually managing to change things are below zero.

[Migjeni]

You're kidding right? Chances Vv can win democratic elections and actually managing to change things are below zero.

Why would I be kidding? - But to answer your question: No, I'm not kidding.

Also, why are chances of VV winning democratic elections as impossible as you make them out to be? - I mean, what do you base this on?

[vata10]

The stubbornness of Albanians, locked votes of PDK and LDK which are above 40%.

I actually think Vv's support has dropped and is lower than it was when they were just a movement.

And scenes like this scare the crap out of normal people https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvfg0qSu0Nw